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View Full Version : Event Organization / Maximum Teamwork [June 1st, Wed]



John CANavar
01.06.2011, 09:45
Hello guys,

I have a couple of ideas I`d like to test and looking for volunteers to join me.

So the basic idea is "Maximizing teamwork in BC2". Because maximum teamwork = more fun :icon_mrgreen:

To do this, we need some standards and these standards should be very simple, practical and compatible with the pace and mechanics of the game. Fortunately, we all have a lot of experience as a group so I think looking back and picking couple of things that worked well in past is all we need to do.

I will organize a meeting around this and wanted to start a discussion to prepare for it. Please join me if you are interested and let me know what you think.

When
- July 1st, Wed. 1830 UTC / 1330 CDT

Where
- =SASS= server seems to be a good choice

Squad Organization (Roles and Responsibilities)

We have four essential roles gentlemen. If we can bring these all together, I think we are good to go.

Squad Leader
- Kit: Assault
- Assigns the objectives.
- Follows the squad from back.
- Last person to engage in firefight. So that we will have a spawn point to continue an assault uninterrupted.
- Coordinates squad with other squads. Securing our flanks, coordinating the attacks with others, etc. All can be done by quickly checking the map and timing our actions.
- Smoke man. When we need smoke, especially last stretch in assault, SL uses smoke.
- Provides ammo.

Pointman
- Kit: Assault / Engineer / Medic
- The most experienced member in combat.
- Leads the way (see travelling overwatch) and everyone follows him [COHESION]
- Decides where to and when to move and when to halt. Sets the pace.

Medic
- Fixed medic role
- Drops packs, follows and supports the pointman closely.

Flank Man
- Kit: Flexible (Assault / AT / Recon)
- When we get into firefight, by default, this is the guy who will try to flank immediately.
- With recon kit, we get the sensor balls which would be a great asset in overwatch positions and defense.

SOPs

Dont be afraid :) Just a couple of very simple things that most of us are already using in game. I will just try to name them and help us all to be on the same page.

Travelling Overwatch
- It is simply one of the safest ways of going from point A to point B. Pointman leads, squad follows. We move from cover to cover. Halt, secure and move. Halt/Secure step is very important because if we move without stopping, our combat efficiency and cohesion significantly drops.

At every halt/secure step (Overwatch), we can:
- Re-organize (get together)
- Assess situation (map check and coordination with the rest of the team)
- Resupply
- Take defensive positions (cover/concealment) and hunt down incoming enemy much more efficiently. Remember that defense is easier than offense. Killing enemy is easier when you are stationary and under cover/concealment.

So it is essentially getting closer to the objective step by step, by securing ground. This way, rest of the team can also catch-up with us.

I`ll give a break now but I guess this is basically the idea. I would like to see if all these can be easily achieved in BC2. Hope to see you guys tonight.

retrokill
01.06.2011, 11:29
June 1st? :) Sound good

I'll try to get along tonight. The rest of the family have chickenpox so when I've dispensed with my matronly duties I'll get ingame.

John CANavar
01.06.2011, 13:01
My mistake retro :( Yep, it is tonight ! June 1st. Can I get help to fix the thread title and content (when section) ;)

retrokill
01.06.2011, 13:40
Thread title fixed :D

OneEar
01.06.2011, 16:46
This is a fantastic idea, John! It's something we should have done a long time ago too! Unfortunately I'm too busy to attend, have fun guys :(

John CANavar
01.06.2011, 18:31
No problem mate. I intend to continue this if you guys are also in. I can try to explain my motivation behind it in the following way.

Lets start with dissecting the Teamwork. How about defining what levels it works. Maybe something like the following.

By the way, please feel free to add/remove anything you like. I'd love to hear what you guys think on all these.

Teamwork Level 1: The Essentials
- A community forum to communicate and exchange ideas
- A teamspeak server for in-game communication
- A common game to play
- Compatible time-zones, joining a server and getting together in the same squad
- Working towards the same objective; typically assault positon X or defend position Y

These are all great.

I dont know what's wrong with me but I still feel something important is missing, another level maybe ;)

Teamwork Level 2:
- Cohesion (Are we able to move together?)
- Clear objectives and directions (Are we all working towards the same goal in a well-coordinated style?)
- Defined roles (kits / responsibilities) in squad (Especially SL and pointman) [Who is in charge of smoke? Who gets the AT kit when needed? Where is my ammo? Where is my medic? ...]
- Basic Tactical Movement (Travelling overwatch and bounding overwatch)
- Basic Maneuvers (Suppress and flank is good enough here. Who suppresses and who flanks?)
- Basic Formations (provides cohesion, default watching arcs and other tactical advantages..[Who was supposed watch our right when we halted at that house? How come that guy knifed us all :) ]
- Couple of standard unit types/playing styles (infantry/mechanized/armor) according to the map type (infantry/armor/mixed)
- Rules of Engagement (fire at will / hold fire) [If you didnt fire that shot, we could've destroyed the M-COM while they were all looking at the other direction !]
- Couple of standard radio messages/communication such as reporting enemy position [Keep it succinct ! And I hate it when it is all silent. No one talks as if we are doing a boring thing. C`mon guys, lets get excited a bit. This is our fun activity. Oh by the way, a bit of role-playing doesnt hurt. Movie moments anyone?]

Well... I guess that's all. We did all these and a bit more in the past. In BF2 vanilla, BF2 PoE, BF2 PR and ArmA... So I know it works and I know it is a lot of fun. I recently decided to collect all memories related to tactical gaming and here (https://sites.google.com/site/johncanavar/1stmip) is a start if you would like to check out.

To start all this with the right foot, let me say that I respect all gaming styles. None is better than the other. It is all a matter of preference. I am very happy to find you guys here and hoping that some of us would like to pursue level-2 teamwork under the roof of S7. Sharing and discussing all these within a friendly environment and open-doors to anyone who wishes to give it a shot, inside and outside of our community...

So here it begins. Wish me luck :)

Exploding_Silver
01.06.2011, 19:23
BC2 was always a fun run around to me and thats the way I was happy to play it, i have in the past not played this the tight tactical way, as the lack of voip etc etc

there is a way to be a tight tactical squad, the procedures need developing, my intuition is that there are not that many procedures to develop, its more about thinking of fast & effective tactics that work across many situations
Eg for squad cohesion, I think the diamond shape is the key

anyway lets take this somewhere interesting

Medic
01.06.2011, 19:37
Where is my medic? ...

Sorry John. Can't play BC2, but i really hope this will work. It will give a big stimulans to this game.

Gorhaut
01.06.2011, 19:48
Interesting idea John. Unfortunatly, I work, so I will have to pass.

big-eye101
01.06.2011, 20:39
...

I dont know what's wrong with me but I still feel something important is missing, another level maybe ;)
...

This is the reason I more or less abandoned BC2.

There are a few critical points done wrong in this game that, for me, lead to this feeling.

1) voip! clearly lol
2) missing command structure - yes this can be somewhat "arranged" and "agreed on" but it just isnt the same.
3) spawn on everyone, imo - pure rubbish. It encourages (at least for me) to take higher risks and maybe move just two more steps further away from the rest of the squad just to see whats around that corner.
4) this game is damn fast. I mean 2142 was a fast game but still this one is in a different league. Partly because of that "spawn on everyone" thing and partly because of the way this game (in my oppinion) encourages solo-style-play , run at the objective - arm it or die trying (especially in rush, which ... when thinking about it ... can actually be infered from the name of that mode lol).
5) Because this game is so fast it makes it hard to work together effectively. By the time you gave a proper report or managed to get a order explained, the situation has changed completely and is so different that most of the time you (or I should say) end up dead and usually frustrated that this just once again didnt work ...

Maybe I'm lacking the personal discipline or maybe I'm just too stupid or mabye I'm not into it enought ... anyways - but I pretty much gave up on it.
/end of rant lol

Nonetheless - I'm curious to see what you guys come up with and if you can pull it off :)

And I wish you best of luck with that project :)

E-Male
02.06.2011, 05:47
I have been working on SLing in BC2 for a year now. I think it can be executed in th manner suggested by John's outline above (Level 2). The key, to me, is to place priority on the tactics and operating procedures in such a way that the game becomes subordinate to the squad itself (we play the game on our own terms, as it were).

John, lets work on Level Two, step by step.

Break down the SOPs to the most basic and essential ones.

Know that there is Level 3 and 4 ahead . . . so not too many training issues in each level.

In no particular order, certain principles that might also need to be expressed to define the different style of play you are expecting.

Some random thoughts:

1) Squad leader leads
2) Control the pace by controlling the zone and distance of engagement.
3) The squad is not the whole team -- so pick a clear objective and let the team worry about what is not being done -- this prevents running all over the place -- prevents being manipulated by events instead of creating events.
4) My own preference is not to die. The squad itself should never be wiped out completely, and if all are working together, it should be exceedingly difficult to kill anyone of us.

Let us begin by defining the specific goals of level 2 with some basic SOPs that are easy to communicate and memorize.

Some basic ones for discussion:

Spawning proceedures
Alpha/Bravo fireteam cohesion and comms (how to maintain fireteam cohesion and How to share intell without cluttering the channel).
Principles of layered defense and attack (Alpha - Bravo support) -- as opposed to the usual everyone up front thing.

The core SOPS and command language needs to be so straightforward they can be communicated to anyone and immediately understood.

Simple. Concise. Clear.

What I saw was quite heartwarming when I gave instructions to John.C and Exploding_Silver and they both confirmed/acknowledged the orders without being asked to -- an excellent and basic SOP.

Too late for writing any more now . ..

We need a forum dedicated to training issues and SOPs.

John CANavar
02.06.2011, 22:28
2) Control the pace by controlling the zone and distance of engagement.
3) The squad is not the whole team -- so pick a clear objective and let the team worry about what is not being done -- this prevents running all over the place -- prevents being manipulated by events instead of creating events.
4) My own preference is not to die. The squad itself should never be wiped out completely, and if all are working together, it should be exceedingly difficult to kill anyone of us.

....

Principles of layered defense and attack (Alpha - Bravo support) -- as opposed to the usual everyone up front thing.

...

Simple. Concise. Clear.



Especially the points mentioned above are great ! I`ll add them to the first draft of our guide. Silver also had nice suggestions yesterday.

John CANavar
03.06.2011, 11:04
Maybe I'm lacking the personal discipline or maybe I'm just too stupid or mabye I'm not into it enough ...

None my friend. We all wanted BC2 to be great but it failed in certain aspects. So we will complement it with a set of solid SOPs and that's all. Things like defined roles/responsibilities (SL, pointman, medic, etc) and a few essential tactical elements (movement, radio comm, etc) and we are good to go. Already started cooking something, a playing guide, with E-male, Silver and others. Join us. I am 100% sure that we will enjoy this title until BF3 comes because we all want to play as a team. All we need to do is to come together and set a few basic procedures to follow in game.

John CANavar
03.06.2011, 12:20
I will use E-male's and Sun Tzu`s wisdom here "Control and adjust the pace of the game or it will control you" ;)